infowars.net/articles/ja...7Freedom.htm
This is a poll of English people. You guys already live in a world where your so called civil rights can be suspended any time with no notice. You guys have civil rights laws and not a Constitution.
I’d like to see the same poll taken here in the States.
Some of your results :
*******• 81% think that following people suspected of involvement with terrorism, tapping their phones and opening their mail is ‘a price worth paying’. *********
That is so scary it is sobering.
*********• 80% think that putting people suspected of involvement with terrorism under special rules – which would mean that they could be electronically tagged, prevented from going to certain places or prevented from leaving their homes at certain times – is ‘a price worth paying’. ***************
That is so scary it is sobering.
************• 79% think that allowing the police to detain people for more than a week or so without charge if the police suspect them of involvement in terrorism is ‘a price worth paying’. ************
That is so scary it is sobering.
**********• 71% think that having compulsory identity cards for all adults is ‘a price worth paying’.***********
As much as I dislike the idea I can almost sort of understand it.
*********• 22% think that torturing terror suspects in British jails to get information, if it is that the only way the information can be obtained, think this is ‘a price worth paying’. ************
I have a lot of ambivalence about torture. Most of it is similar in logic to my objections to the Death Penalty - - what if you are wrong & do I want my government engaged in that conduct?
**********• 35% think that banning certain peaceful protests and demonstrations is ‘a price worth paying’. *********
That is so scary it is sobering.
********• 45% think that denying the right to a trial by jury to people charged with a terrorist-related crime is ‘a price worth paying’. **********
That is so scary it is sobering.
*********• 22% think that ‘during war it is acceptable for the armed forces to torture people’.**********
I have a lot of ambivalence about torture. Most of it is similar in logic to my objections to the Death Penalty - - what if you are wrong & do I want my government engaged in that conduct?
This is a poll of English people. You guys already live in a world where your so called civil rights can be suspended any time with no notice. You guys have civil rights laws and not a Constitution.
I’d like to see the same poll taken here in the States.
Some of your results :
*******• 81% think that following people suspected of involvement with terrorism, tapping their phones and opening their mail is ‘a price worth paying’. *********
That is so scary it is sobering.
*********• 80% think that putting people suspected of involvement with terrorism under special rules – which would mean that they could be electronically tagged, prevented from going to certain places or prevented from leaving their homes at certain times – is ‘a price worth paying’. ***************
That is so scary it is sobering.
************• 79% think that allowing the police to detain people for more than a week or so without charge if the police suspect them of involvement in terrorism is ‘a price worth paying’. ************
That is so scary it is sobering.
**********• 71% think that having compulsory identity cards for all adults is ‘a price worth paying’.***********
As much as I dislike the idea I can almost sort of understand it.
*********• 22% think that torturing terror suspects in British jails to get information, if it is that the only way the information can be obtained, think this is ‘a price worth paying’. ************
I have a lot of ambivalence about torture. Most of it is similar in logic to my objections to the Death Penalty - - what if you are wrong & do I want my government engaged in that conduct?
**********• 35% think that banning certain peaceful protests and demonstrations is ‘a price worth paying’. *********
That is so scary it is sobering.
********• 45% think that denying the right to a trial by jury to people charged with a terrorist-related crime is ‘a price worth paying’. **********
That is so scary it is sobering.
*********• 22% think that ‘during war it is acceptable for the armed forces to torture people’.**********
I have a lot of ambivalence about torture. Most of it is similar in logic to my objections to the Death Penalty - - what if you are wrong & do I want my government engaged in that conduct?
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fellow yankee doodle dandy here...
clifford,
i'm a democrat, a liberal, a supporter of consititutional rights to americans and people contributing to our great western civ.
the reality is that we already torture for info. it works, it doesn't work, depends on the stats and who's touting them.
i know this is review for you. you sound like a smart and compassionate guy.
but i bet you that information obtained through torture has prevented a good number of attacks on both the UK and USA.
sure, it's a slippery slope as far as innocent vicitims of torture. it's a numbers game. i say put on the skis and ride it out till they take diplomacy seriously. well, until we take it seriously, too. we're all to blame here. both govs are representatitve of the voters.
yes it's scary, but scarier is the probability that giving these bastards the rights afforded by our constitution would be complicit in future attacks. this is war. period. the 60s are over. it's kill or be killed. and i'd rather not be killed. -
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BTW, if it weren't the beginning of 24 (AKA the Jack Bauer Show) i might be more understanding, but those fuckers nuked us!! i know it's fiction, but i'm still juiced from monday's episode.
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*************the reality is that we already torture for info. it works, it doesn't work, depends on the stats and who's touting them. *********
I know. I have been on both sides of the debate and in each instance I was able to produce a rational well considered and researched position. It's like having Multiple personality disorder.
I am among that group that thinks the Church Doctrine should have never been applied to our foreign espionage efforts.
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The polls and facts are sobering. But it sounds strange to me to hear someone from the USA claiming he finds the Brits scary. You might want to seriously consider the claim put formward by some people that American democracy has been hijacked for quite a few years now. (Unfortunately, I think this applies to quite a few western democracies, maybe to modern democracy as a whole and it might be time to reinvent the concept if we want it to be really effective...)
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Hijacked? Naaah. All those people screaming that Habeas had been destroyed or that bloggers will have to register to have free spech etc etc etc are all misguided and uninformed.
That's why we have a Constitution. It can't be swept aside by a signing statement nor by other laws. All laws must be brought before the Constitution and made to measure up. If they fail they are void.
Signing statements are nothing more than the president saying what he thinks. That is it.
At times they might possibly help a court later on to have some insight into the legislative intent because the president often works with Congress to draft laws - - - but that's it. They have no power at all they change nothing.
Our democracy hasn't been hijacked. We merely have a load of pissed off leftists who want exactly the opposite of how things have gone.
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